“We need to have a laity that . . . sees engagement in public life as part of what discipleship is about. Particularly since the Council, we seem to have clericalized our laity; everybody feels that the way to be a good Catholic is to somehow be involved in a liturgical function. Now, that’s all wonderful—the liturgy is the highest point in our life. But the competence of the laity should be to transform society with the values of the Gospel.”