LANDY: The office was on the second floor of a tenement building. I remember climbing rickety stairs and there sat this gaunt, frightening-looking guy with little round glasses--now he looks like a pillar of the establishment. We were not close friends.

HALE: No, not in college.

LANDY: We just knew each other.

HALE: We really became friends in New York.

LANDY: We had good adventures in New York.

HALE: We had fun.

LANDY: See, that's when we became deep friends.

HALE: After I graduated, I moved to New York for graduate school. Marc's from there, he'd come back to New York to teach in the public school system. So, we started hanging around together on the West Side of Manhattan.

LANDY: In those days, there was more hanging around.

HALE: We did a lot of just hanging around.

LANDY: A lot of it was just drinking coffee.

HALE: Drinking coffee, hanging around talking about politics. That's when we really got at the heart of it.

LANDY: That's when we discovered that we think alike.

HALE: We think a lot like each other, but we don't think like a lot of other people. So we have a lot of interesting things to say to each other.

LANDY: It's really our ideas and our opinions that are in common.

HALE: Our knowledge.

LANDY: Our values.

HALE: What we believe.

LANDY: What we believe to be true, I think, is very similar. It all goes back to conversation. That's what this friendship is based on.

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